KENNY MALONE: You are about to hear some deeply troubling allegations, allegations about a company that we should say does not provide financial support for NPR. Here’s our episode.
SPEAKER: This is Planet Money from NPR.
MALONE: We begin today with, I think, truly, one of the most chilling earnings calls I have ever heard.
GREG ROSALSKY: Really disturbing.
MALONE: And people should know, earnings calls generally, they’re very, welcome to Q3.
ROSALSKY: Yeah, profitability, costs, stuff like that.
MALONE: But in this call, they throw to the CEO. And it is very different here. You want to hear it?
ANNOUNCER: –bringing us to the earnings report on our deep space initiatives. Every corporation has a space fleet.
ROSALSKY: Space fleet, of course. Every corporation has a space fleet.
MALONE: Space fleet is a weird way to put the pivot to space, I suppose. But I kind of follow.
ANNOUNCER: But because we were there first, our profits have grown exponentially in less than a decade.
MALONE: I’m not a CEO coach. But like–
ROSALSKY: I’d sound less cartoonishly evil, maybe.
MALONE: Don’t sound like a supervillain.
ANNOUNCER: This year, the first of our research vessels are scheduled to return. And with it, they’ll bring back something that will keep our profits well ahead of everyone.
ROSALSKY: Sounds like maybe a good investment. I’m not sure.
MALONE: Are you a buy on–
ROSALSKY: I’m buy.
MALONE: –the Weyland-Yutani company, Greg?
ROSALSKY: I think so.
MALONE: Weyland-Yutani is a fictional company from the film franchise Alien.
ROSALSKY: Alien, yeah.
MALONE: And Greg, in case people don’t know, the thing they have found in outer space that will bring great profitability–
ROSALSKY: Could it be a killer alien?
MALONE: Yes, double-mouthed, acid-blooded Xenomorph. You want to make a Xenomorph sound? Can you do xenomorph?
ROSALSKY: [HISSES]
MALONE: Excellent, excellent. All right, so we’ve been talking about a fake company this whole time. The Weyland-Yutani corporation runs through the Alien franchise. And it is certainly a caricature of a futuristic conglomerate. But what Greg and I will propose today is that it is, in fact, the perfect vehicle to look at how we are living our lives today as workers and laborers in the modern economy.
ROSALSKY: Dun, dun, dun!
MALONE: Hello, and welcome to Planet Money. I’m Kenny Malone.
ROSALSKY: And I’m Greg Rosalsky. The movie Alien is set 96 years in a future where a single, gargantuan company controls basically everything and employs seemingly everyone.
MALONE: This proves to be bad for workers because they have no other options, of course. But then even worse for workers when they are forced to onboard their company’s newest team member/profit center, which then basically eats all of them, except for one.
ROSALSKY: It’s pretty scary sci-fi stuff. But you know what’s scarier, Kenny?
MALONE: Oh, what’s that, Greg Rosalsky?
[LAUGHTER]
ROSALSKY: More and more research suggests our sci-non-fi world has a lot more in common with the labor dynamics of Alien than you might think.
MALONE: It’s true. And look, we at Planet Money see economics in everything. But on this one with Alien, we are not alone. Today on the show, you don’t need a textbook to learn labor economics. You just need some clips from Alien and one of our leading labor economists to watch them with us.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
[SCREAMING]
ROSALSKY: OK, so today, we are going to spoil some parts of the 47-year-old movie Alien. If you haven’t seen it, come on, people.
MALONE: We will also be spoiling some parts of the brand new book, The Wage Standard, subtitle, What’s Wrong in the Labor Market and How to Fix It, by economist Arin Dube. And if you haven’t read that, also, come on. What’s wrong with you people?
ROSALSKY: Spoilers all around. So we emailed Arin to say, you know what, we love your book. But you know what would be cool? If we mostly interviewed about the movie Alien.
MALONE: It’s true. And then Arin wrote back to us and said, basically, heck, yeah.
ARINDRAJI DUBE: Pretty sure I watched Alien for the first time when I was in middle school.
MALONE: That’s very young.
DUBE: Yeah, I was very edgy.
MALONE: It’s R-rated, Arin.
[LAUGHTER]
ROSALSKY: Arin is one of the most prominent labor economists working right now. He’s at UMass Amherst. And he’s probably best-known for his research on the minimum wage.
MALONE: Arin’s been contributing to this growing body of shows higher minimum wages do not kill jobs the way economists used to think.
ROSALSKY: But you can read all about that in Arin’s book.
MALONE: Yeah, yeah.
ROSALSKY: Back to Alien, right?
MALONE: Let’s get back to Alien, yes. Do you remember feeling like there were worker rights issues at play?
DUBE: That was the first thing I thought of. I was like, oh, my gosh. I told my friends. No, I think I was just like, oh, my god, I can’t believe I’m watching this.
MALONE: Yeah.
ROSALSKY: If it just so happened that this is why you got into labor economics, that would have been a wonderful answer.
MALONE: That’s true.
ROSALSKY: But that’s OK.
DUBE: We can go with that because, who knows?
ROSALSKY: Yeah, who knows? Because there is genuinely a surprising amount of labor economics baked into the very core of this movie.
MALONE: So if you haven’t seen it, allow us to briefly explain the setup, the basic setup of the film Alien.
[20TH CENTURY STUDIOS AUDIO LOGO]
ROSALSKY: 20th Century Fox presents–
MALONE: Exterior shot, spaceship from a company called the Weyland-Yutani Corporation.
ROSALSKY: This is a space truck, essentially. It’s hauling a bunch of ore from a mining planet back to Earth.
MALONE: But, interior shot–
[ELECTRONIC BEEPING]
MALONE: –computer screen.
ROSALSKY: The space truck’s computer picks up a mysterious signal, then wakes the entire crew from cryosleep.
LAMBERT: Hey, I’m cold.
ELLEN RIPLEY: Could use some cornbread.
MALONE: Now, this crew, they’re rough, they’re tumble. They’re blue-collar space truckers. They wear tattered clothes and headbands. They work for Weyland-Yutani and clearly would rather still be a-cryosleep.
BRETT: Right.
KANE: Ugh, I feel dead.
ROSALSKY: So yeah, that’s the basic setup.
DUBE: Yeah, yeah, that’s right.
MALONE: What about that setup gets labor economist senses tingling?
DUBE: So first of all, these are not great jobs.
MALONE: They’re tough jobs, yeah.
DUBE: There’s some serious negative amenities, as we say.
MALONE: Is that the term?
DUBE: That’s the term.
ROSALSKY: Yeah, that’s the term. When you watch Alien with Arin Dube, it’s like the nerdiest DVD commentary ever. He spots all of these hugely important, real world ideas from labor economics.
MALONE: And so we are going to watch Alien with Arin Dube and learn about our world from his commentary.
ROSALSKY: So negative amenities, those are things that make a job less desirable. An emergency room job, it may require overnight shifts. A construction job, it may come with the risk of injury.
MALONE: A space trucker job on a beat-up old mining ship?
ROSALSKY: Yeah.
MALONE: Arin immediately sees some likely negative amenities here.
DUBE: There’s a few, but risk of death is probably a pretty big one.
MALONE: Yes, I think that’s fair.
DUBE: It could be fun, though, if life-threatening, but definitely not good.
ROSALSKY: I mean, they have to go into cryogenic sleep for many years. They’re away from home for a long time.
MALONE: So negative, away from home for a long time. Positive, get to sleep on the job for a lot of the job.
DUBE: Yeah.
MALONE: A job with lots of negative amenities is what Arin calls a bad job. That’s a real term. And being a space trucker for the company Weyland-Yutani, bad job, high-risk.
DUBE: When you have a job where there’s a big risk, you get something that’s called compensating differential, meaning you get paid more because– to compensate for the risk. Now, that’s if the labor market is working pretty well.
ROSALSKY: Yeah, Arin has some questions about how well the labor market is functioning in the year 2122.
MALONE: Mhm. You don’t have to watch for very long to see the problems. Basically, the first scene of the movie Alien is all about work and pay and contracts. And we cue that scene up to watch with Arin. All right, everyone ready?
ROSALSKY: Yeah.
MALONE: OK.
DUBE: Sounds good.
MALONE: Here we go.
ROSALSKY: OK, so in this scene, the crew, they gather around this table. Their captain tells them about this mysterious transmission. And they’ve been woken up because their company, Weyland-Yutani, it needs them to go investigate that transmission.
RIPLEY: A transmission out here?
ASH: Yeah.
PARKER: SOS?
ASH: I don’t know.
RIPLEY: Human?
ASH: Unknown.
PARKER: I hate to bring this up, but this is a commercial ship, not a rescue ship. And it’s not in my contract to do this kind of duty. If you wanted to give me some money–
DUBE: Not in the contract.
MALONE: Yeah, let me pause there. Not in the contract. What’s reaction to that line?
DUBE: Well, it’s not in the contract. So if they are told they have to do something, it’s not in their contract, they should just quit and get another job.
MALONE: You’re being facetious, because they’re on a spaceship.
DUBE: Oh, no!
[LAUGHTER]
DUBE: How is that going to work?
MALONE: Yes, here is a giant clue that the true monster of Alien may be hiding in the labor dynamics, Greg, yes?
ROSALSKY: Yeah, I mean, OK, so our crew, they live on a company ship. They sleep in a company cryosleep chamber. They eat company cornbread, apparently. Functionally, our space truckers live in a company town.
MALONE: Now, what makes Alien a smarter econ movie than it needs to be is that it goes further than just saying, oh, the crew’s trapped. Therefore they must do what their company says. Instead, this scene keeps going. And the crew is like, well, if we do this little side mission, we better get overtime or something.
KANE: Can we– can we just–
PARKER: Let’s talk about the bonus–
KANE: I’m sorry. Can I say something?
PARKER: Let’s talk about the bonus reward.
ASH: There is a clause in the contract.
ROSALSKY: OK, so that person who is, well, actually, there’s a clause in the contract, he’s an android. He represents the company, Weyland-Yutani. He’s a management shill.
MALONE: Big narc energy.
ASH: There is a clause in the contract which specifically states any systematized transmission indicating a possible intelligent origin must be investigated.
PARKER: I don’t want to hear it.
BRETT: Parker, will you just listen to the man?
ASH: On penalty of total forfeiture of shares–
MALONE: That sounds bad.
BRETT: You got that?
MALONE: No money, he said.
DUBE: No money.
[LAUGHTER]
BRETT: All right, we’re going in.
KANE: Yeah, we’re going in, aren’t we?
ROSALSKY: And that shut him up. They’re kind of forced into doing this mission because, surprise, the company, Weyland-Yutani, has hidden a clause in everyone’s contract.
MALONE: So just walk us through what a labor economist thinks watching that scene.
DUBE: Yeah, so if the labor market’s really competitive, the ability for companies to write contracts where there are sort of hidden risks– like, hidden risk, alien calls, you have to go pick up– those would get priced out properly. And so you would get a bonus of some sort or get a higher pay. But if the market’s not particularly competitive, then that could easily be that these shrouded– we call it shrouded attributes. People have the unpleasant finding out that, actually, your contract has things that you didn’t fully factor in. And you’re kind of stuck with it.
MALONE: I mean, they don’t know they’re about to go be infected by a man-eating super-killer.
DUBE: Yeah, I think the technical term is you’re kind of screwed.
[LAUGHTER]
MALONE: No, I just want to say how wonderful it is that the inciting incident of Alien is a shrouded attribute. It’s this little clause about a wildly risky job responsibility that Weyland-Yutani did not need to price into its worker pay because they could just bury it in the contract.
ROSALSKY: And the fact that Weyland-Yutani could get away with this, that is the second big clue that our poor space truckers, they are not just dealing with a bad labor market.
MALONE: No, no, no. They’re dealing with an infamous economic concept.
ROSALSKY: A concept that could keep some labor economists up at night.
MALONE: A concept that we are actively avoiding saying.
ROSALSKY: Because, yeah, we wanted Arin to say it.
MALONE: Yeah, he says it well. Would you say that the thing we have not yet said is scarier or less scary than the xenomorph, the alien?
DUBE: In eighth grade, not so much. But today, yeah. Xenomorphs are not great, but monopsony–
MALONE: Ahh, monopsony!
ROSALSKY: Monopsony, it’s coming to get me!
MALONE: Now–
ROSALSKY: It bursted out of Kenny’s chest. Help us!
MALONE: Well, I will say, we are bursting with enthusiasm to talk about monopsony, yes? Because Planet Money stans will know that we love talking monopsony when we can. So of course, monopoly is where there’s one big company selling in a market. Monopsony is when there is one company buying in a market. And the version we probably hear most often is about one company buying labor, hiring people, so only one company that people can go work for. And it certainly seems as if the corporation, Weyland-Yutani, is operating with the power of a monopsony in the dystopian sci-fi future of Alien.
ROSALSKY: Now, obviously, this is a crazy, fantastical world, far off in space, with aliens and xenomorphs and whatever. But these all-powerful monopsonies have existed in the real world, like mining towns that were owned and run by one company. And when there’s only one employer– how did Arin put it again? Kind of screwed.
MALONE: Yes, one company, real bad for workers.
DUBE: Of course, in a company town, there’s going to be monopsony power. Weyland-Yutani– but this is really a much more endemic feature of the labor market than people have really understood.
MALONE: As in, monopsony power is sneakily hiding all over our current labor market, even when there is more than one company to go work for. And this– this actually is the part that should land like the economic version of a surprise alien bursting out of your colleague’s chest. Greg, you want to go with that again?
ROSALSKY: [SCREAMING] Wait, am I the alien or the person? [SCREAMING] I guess it was both.
MALONE: Excellent. The monopsony was hiding within us all along. That’s the takeaway here, yes.
ROSALSKY: For decades, economists assumed that labor markets were mostly competitive, and that monopsonies, they could be treated like unicorns, only found in rare circumstances. But Arin and a growing number of economists, they’re finding monopsony is more of like a regular horse. Monopsony power, it’s just much more pervasive than previously thought.
MALONE: Yes, sure. Pervasive, but the key here is that monopsony power that Arin and other researchers are finding, it’s not obvious, like in old mining towns or future space mining companies. It’s kind of with us now, sneakily. So Arin walks us through how to spot what today’s monopsony power looks like for us.
DUBE: I think that the key thing is to start with the– what is monopsony power? Monopsony power means that workers can’t easily switch jobs. And employers have some degree of choice of what kind of wages or what kind of working conditions to provide. Now, why do they have this choice? Why don’t you have basically, I pay a little bit lower than the market wage, everyone bolts and is gone to the next, best alternative? Why does that not happen?
MALONE: So it’s not because we’re stuck on spaceships. That’s not the reason.
DUBE: That’s not the reason. That’s, like, the fifth reason. But first, because there may be concentrated markets.
ROSALSKY: Concentrated markets– so maybe we don’t yet have one giant Weyland-Yutani Corporation running the world. But when you look at specific industries, within specific geographies, some of those have been consolidating, offering fewer and fewer employers for people to work for.
MALONE: As industries consolidate, employers tend to be able to reduce pay for workers. And one example Arin points to in his book, somebody who is working in the skiing industry.
DUBE: Skiing industry, like 25 years ago, there was a lot of small, family-owned hills. But over the last 25, 30 years, it’s become very consolidated. For example, in Vermont, you could maybe go to the next one over. And hey, that’s also owned by the same employer. But that right there is a classic source of monopsony power, that there may be less employers around than you may think for the kinds of work that you’re doing.
ROSALSKY: This seems to be true more broadly. Arin points to one study that found typical American workers only have about three equal-sized employers within driving distance for their particular employment field.
MALONE: But even when you move to big cities where people have way more job options, Arin’s work has found that people simply do not quit a job for better-paying jobs in the way that classic labor market theories would predict.
ROSALSKY: Yeah, maybe they kind of like their commute, or they’re like, oh, I love my coworkers. I’ll miss them if I leave or whatever. And then there’s the fact that changing jobs is just a huge pain.
DUBE: What we call in economics “surge frictions,” that employees actually have difficulty finding out about, applying for quitting, and taking a new job. These are costly. It can be slow. It can be exhausting. And it can take a lot of effort, especially when you already have another job.
MALONE: And it’s not just that changing jobs is annoying, which it is. Arin says companies intentionally also make it harder for workers to jump ship and change jobs.
DUBE: I talk about this monopsony by artifice. Here’s an example, non-compete agreements. So a third or more of American workers end up signing these.
ROSALSKY: A third?
DUBE: Yeah.
MALONE: Wow.
DUBE: And by the way, sometimes it’s argued that it’s because– to protect trade secrets. But then Jimmy John’s sandwich chain, summer camp in Massachusetts, the examples go on. But it’s basically a way to reduce competition for workers.
MALONE: What you’re saying about the ways in which monopsony shows up, surely we’re not all stuck on a spaceship with a single employer controlling our entire life. And what your research has shown is, aren’t we, though, in just littler ways?
DUBE: That’s right. So jobs are sticky. Quitting is harder. And as a result, our working conditions and job quality are only partially determined by a well-functioning market force. So yes, there’s aspects of exactly what doesn’t work in a very dramatic way in Alien does afflict us in smaller but important ways. And the good news is we have ways of fixing or improving those, more so than in the movie, perhaps.
ROSALSKY: Yeah, Arin says, in the real world, we have ways to push back against monopsony power, things like minimum wage laws, antitrust enforcement, and labor unions that fight for worker interests.
MALONE: And this is basically what Arin’s book is about. He says the erosion of those counterforces is a big reason we’ve seen a stagnation of worker pay and a rise in inequality. That’s in the real world, of course. But Arin says he supposes those things would have helped in the movie Alien too.
ROSALSKY: Yeah, imagine if, in the movie, the employees of Weyland-Yutani were in a really strong labor union or something, one that we see in a lot of other countries, where they hammer out worker protections for a whole sector of the economy.
DUBE: So if we had, for example, the Sectoral Space Truckers Association–
MALONE: The SSTA, yep, the SSTA.
DUBE: An SSTA. And so, when they start having these debates about what they should do, there’s a big volume of SSTA contract that lays out our collective bargaining. And in fact, if they found out something they didn’t really like, they would say, you know what. Let me call– let me talk to my shop steward.
MALONE: That scene would probably play out a little different, wouldn’t it?
DUBE: It would be a really boring scene. And then they would say, OK, fine, we’re not going to do it. And then they’re just going to go back to Earth, the end.
MALONE: I don’t know that that would be a boring scene.
ROSALSKY: It sounds riveting to me, honestly.
MALONE: Agree. And so Planet Money is proud to present the world premiere of Alien, 1979, The Labor Economist’s Cut.
ROSALSKY: And we hear from someone with firsthand knowledge of what it takes to make an actual Alien movie and how to nail the perfect balance of labor economics and killer aliens.
MALONE: All of that after the break.
[MUSIC PLAYING]
MALONE: The labor economist Arin Dube’s cut of Alien, 1979, it starts the same way.
[20TH CENTURY STUDIOS AUDIO LOGO]
ROSALSKY: Spaceship–
MALONE: Computer–
ROSALSKY: Space truckers wake up.
BRETT: Right.
KANE: Yeah, oh, I feel dead.
MALONE: But we asked Arin Dube to tweak the labor conditions for a better worker outcome in Alien.
ROSALSKY: Arin imagined, instead, a future where the space truckers were part of some sectoral bargaining agreement, where there was a strong union. And here, he thinks, is how the opening of Alien would have played out instead.
BRETT: Some of you may have figured out we’re not home yet. We intercepted a transmission of unknown origin.
RIPLEY: A transmission out here?
BRETT: Yeah, he got us up to check it out.
PARKER: This is a commercial ship, not a rescue ship.
BRETT: Right.
PARKER: And it’s not in my contract to do this kind of duty.
ASH: Sorry, can I say something? There is a clause in the contract which specifically states, any systematized transmission indicating a possible intelligent origin must–
ROSALSKY: No, no, hold on. I think somebody’s trying to say something in the back.
DUBE: Yeah, remember our grievance procedure? So I’m going to file that. And while it’s being investigated, we actually can’t go. That’s part of the rule.
MALONE: So, the end.
[LAUGHTER]
MALONE: Back to the cryosleep, I guess.
[LAUGHTER]
ROSALSKY: Back to cryosleep we go.
DUBE: It’s a YouTube short.
[LAUGHTER]
MALONE: OK, OK, yes, ultimately, you cannot have Alien without all these labor dynamics, the negative amenities, shrouded attributes, the monopsony. And I would contend that all of that rich texture is what makes this movie special, and a huge part of what makes Alien more than just another good horror movie.
ROSALSKY: Yeah, there are now a bunch of Alien movies. And the best of those, they strike this delicate balance of space terror and smart economic themes. And we were unbelievably excited to get to talk to someone who has actually had to walk that econ-horror tightrope.
MALONE: I’m going to put you on the spot a little bit. Do you remember, off the top of your head, the first words that are spoken in your film, Alien Romulus?
FEDE ALVAREZ: First words spoken? What is– let me remember.
MALONE: This is Fede Alvarez. He co-wrote and directed the newest film in the Alien franchise. I can give you the answer, if you want it.
ALVAREZ: Attention all workers.
MALONE: Attention all workers.
ANNOUNCER: Attention all workers. Attention all workers. Day shift starting, T-minus 15 minutes.
MALONE: We at Planet Money, we bring our economics lens to everything. But surely we are not hallucinating that you also have chosen to put labor dynamics, to some degree, front and center here, yes?
ALVAREZ: Yeah, and I think all the– when you’re going to make an Alien movie, the first thing you do is trying to study what make the best iterations of this franchise. And I think– and if you look at the first one, you look even the second one and the third one, they’re always talking about that. I mean, in a way that– how powerless the individual can be in front of the machine.
ROSALSKY: This is kind of a big deal for us. Fede Alvarez, he’s a very accomplished horror-thriller director. He made his first films in Uruguay. He co-wrote and directed a huge hit in the United States called Don’t Breathe. He also directed a reboot of The Evil Dead, which was freaking awesome and supposedly set a record for gallons of fake blood used in a movie.
MALONE: Indeed, it rains fake blood, lots of fake blood. And yeah, Greg and I, big Fede Alvarez fans. And clearly, Fede knows that great Alien movies need smart ideas about labor and work. He’s not a labor economist, though. So we wanted to talk to Fede about how he went about finding and building those smart ideas into his movie.
ROSALSKY: And Fede he told us he admittedly did not notice the econ in Alien at first. But later, when he was around age 20, he started to understand that this movie, it’s saying something much bigger.
ALVAREZ: The movie starts. And as soon as they’re at the table, they talk about the bonus situation.
MALONE: It’s right away. It’s like, first thing, we’re in a contract. It’s wild.
ALVAREZ: It’s the first thing they do, and talk about the rights as workers. But also, they’re not just talking about that. They talk about inequality as well. They’re talking about, why am I getting less money than you guys? And the captain goes, you’re going to get what you deserve. And obviously, he’s talking about, when the monster comes, we’re all going to be the same. We’re all going to be equal. Actually, the captain is one of the first ones to die. And that shows how death is that biggest equalizer.
MALONE: So I’m curious. We’re going to get a little economicsy here with your permission, yes?
ALVAREZ: Yeah, of course.
MALONE: OK, great. Have you ever heard the term monopsony? Does this come across our radar?
ALVAREZ: Oh, no.
MALONE: OK, because you 1,000% nail this perfectly in your movie.
[CHATTER]
ANNOUNCER: The company pays for food and shelter and takes our lives in exchange.
ROSALSKY: OK, let us set this up for you if you haven’t seen Fede’s movie Alien Romulus. In his Alien, we actually start on a mining and farming planet, a colony entirely controlled by the corporation Weyland-Yutani.
MALONE: And it is bad. Workers are living some version of indentured servitude in a company town. And just like in the original Alien, one of Fede’s first scenes is simple, yet stuffed with all kinds of huge labor economics.
ROSALSKY: Right. Our protagonist, a young woman named Rain, she goes into Weyland-Yutani’s office of colony affairs. And she tries to submit some paperwork to get off this planet. Basically, she’s trying to quit her job.
CLERK: Full name and occupation, please.
RAIN CARRADINE: Rain Carradine, ma’am. I met my quota. And I should be free to go now.
CLERK: I’m sorry, but you’re not eligible for contract release yet.
CARRADINE: Wait, what? No, no, no, I reached the required hours.
CLERK: Unfortunately, quotas have been raised to 24,000 hours. So you’ll be released from contract in another five to six years. Thank you. And remember, the company is really grateful for your ongoing service.
ROSALSKY: This is a depiction of monopsony that could be taught in economics classes, the way that remote towns historically created this kind of trapped labor force, the way company towns infamously had so much control that workers had to use fake company money to buy things from their company stores using company scrip.
MALONE: We asked Fede if he and his co-writer, Rodo Sayagues, had researched case studies to get this right. And he was like, yeah, but also, it’s a bit more intuitive than that. And it’s also about, early on in the movie, setting up what he thinks is the ultimate theme of a good Alien movie, general powerlessness.
ALVAREZ: And in the case of Alien always, Weyland-Yutani represents the government. It can be literally that in the stories. But it’s also how you feel powerless versus something that cannot be destroyed, that seems to be you cannot negotiate with, that seems that it’s relentless. So I think that’s why I think the best ones, they always start there. They get the audience. They draw them in from a perspective of, everybody knows how it feels to be in that place and feel powerless.
MALONE: I’ve read a few quotes from you about this as an Uruguayan.
ALVAREZ: Exactly, yeah.
MALONE: You said things like, growing up under a dictatorship in a developing country, that there is a feeling that may seem specific but is universal about sort of a lack of options for you as a young person.
ALVAREZ: Yeah. I mean, ironically, at the same time, yes, Uruguay, by being born in a dictatorship, my parents had a mentality and a way of a survival instinct that came from being born in that environment, where you didn’t have a lot of choices. And if you grew a beard, you will get arrested. But at the same time, that being said, there’s also– the other side of it is, when I moved to the United States, when I make Evil Dead, my first film and I moved here, I was like, wait a second, you guys don’t have vacation salary? You don’t have guaranteed 30 days of vacation every year? And people were like, what are you talking about?
MALONE: You have to work.
ALVAREZ: And I was like, what is this dystopian society?
[LAUGHTER]
ALVAREZ: So Uruguay, we have health care. There’s free health care. And in particularly on the employer dynamics, if you get hired by and a company, and they want to fire you, it’s OK. They can fire you. But they will have to pay you. There’s all this severance thing. They have to pay you at least a month of salary for each year that you work at the company. So the more you work, the harder it is to fire you. And I took for granted all my life living there. And then when I came here, there were people were laughing at all this nonsense that I was telling them. So for me, that also made me understand why, in Alien, it was important, if I was going to make one, to really bring some of the subjects to the forefront.
MALONE: A rumor on the street is that you and Rodo have already written the sequel to Alien Romulus. Is that correct?
ALVAREZ: We did, we did. I didn’t want to direct another one.
MALONE: No, no, no questions about whether you’re going to direct. I don’t need spoilers. You don’t need to spoil any plot. But can you exclusively, for our Planet Money audience, tell us, will we get more labor economics?
ALVAREZ: Definitely. That’s what they’re all about. That’s what they’re all about. It’s not a good Alien movie if it doesn’t deal with that.
MALONE: That’s true. Can we expect, now that I’ve taught you the term monopsony, is it too late to change your next script and throw a little– sprinkle in a little monopsony?
ALVAREZ: Don’t you see it, guys, this is a monopsony! The whole theater is going to say, what?
MALONE: Yeah, that’s right. They’re going to know. They’ll know. They’ll know. Fede, thank you so much. This was awesome. I hope you enjoyed talking some of this.
ALVAREZ: Oh, my pleasure, my pleasure.
MALONE: Don’t fast-forward. We’ve got a special event to tell you about that is just going to be for our NPR+ supporters. If you couldn’t make one of our book tour events back in April, we’ve got great news for you. We’re doing one more, one more book tour event. This time, it’s a live virtual event. It’s on Thursday, June 25 at 3:00 PM Eastern. My colleague Jeff Guo will be there. The main author of our book, Alex Mayyasi, he will be there. We’ll also have some special guests, TBD. If you’ve already joined NPR+, thank you. And listen to our most recent bonus episode to find out how to register for the event. And if you have not joined NPR+ yet, well, make sure you’re signed up by June 24 to get our invite. Just go to plus.npr.org. Again, that is plus.npr.org. Signing up is a great way to support the show, NPR, and independent, non-profit journalism. We’ll see you there.
ROSALSKY: Today’s episode of Planet was produced by the wonderful, the incomparable James Sneed. Go, Knicks. It was edited by Jess Jiang, fact-checked by Sierra Juarez, and engineered by Robert Rodriguez. Our executive producer is Alex Goldmark.
MALONE: Special thanks this week to Taylor Haber and to you, Greg Rosalsky, you little xenomorph. Greg, if you are not familiar, is our newsletter writer and wrote two excellent newsletters about monopsony, about the movie Alien, about Arin Dube. And those inspired this show. So you can find those. We’re going to link to them in our show notes.
ROSALSKY: Yeah, thanks, Kenny. Really appreciate that.
MALONE: Yeah. I’m Kenny Malone.
ROSALSKY: And I’m Greg Rosalsky. This is NPR. Thanks for listening.
[HISSING]
ROSALSKY: The key is–
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